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Post by tatooine315 on Sept 11, 2007 0:24:37 GMT -5
Man This is kinda funny...After all that MIASMA....(My opinion only) I still Love the INVICTA WATCHES..And will continue to buy them Swiss, Floridian or othewise. 10 bucks 200 bucks (thats my limit)...CANT WE ALL JUST GET ALONG?...I admit some people have replied to my post and been pretty snarky...but WHO CARES..Its just a watch collecting forum..I mean fighting about it isnt gonna change anyones opinions...Ok say what ever you want about my comments... but I STILL LIKE INVICTA. (Please I didnt mean to insight a RIOT with this post) But I do want to say again... Oh whatever bye for now....xoxoxox Rs
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Post by TimeBandit on Sept 11, 2007 9:37:51 GMT -5
I'm not going as far as to say that (only buy a piece where it says Swiss Made at the 6:00 position) but I want to know what I'm buying.
If I like a piece that’s in the 100 to 200 dollar range, I’m not going to expect it to be Swiss made. It is most likely going to have a movement that is Asian and/or has some Swiss manufacturing in it. If it’s made by Invicta, I expect the value to be high, meaning I receive a durable, accurate and long lasting timepiece for a very reasonable price. I hope the more I pay for a piece the better the quality, and still maintaining good value.
I find myself liking most of the $300 plus Invictas, such as the ones with the Sellita SW 200 Automatic or Swiss ETA G15 Quartz, which seems like a fun looking multifunction quartz movement.
The reason there is such debate about Invicta is that there are a bunch of intertwined issues.
Invicta presents themselves as a Swiss watch company and there’s little doubt that many novice consumers think they’re buying a Swiss made timepiece when in reality they’re not.
For those who are more educated about this, such as many of you here, there’s the issue of full discloser about this company and the practices that it uses to sell their products.
I can see from a purist standpoint that if one wants to own a Swiss watch they want to own one from a company that is a 100% Swiss or close to it, not one that manufacturers most of it’s product elsewhere and only has a small smattering of true Swiss made timepieces.
When someone puts their Rolex, for instance, on their wrist they can feel proud that they own a timepiece made by a Swiss company. Depending on what Invica we wear on our wrist at any given time, how do we feel? I’m not sure how I feel when wear one of my Swiss Made Invicta watches. When people ask about it, my first thoughts are it is a true Swiss Made piece BUT… When I wear the one that says Swiss Movt, it gets even foggier what to say. How about, it’s made by a company that claims to be Swiss watch maker that produces some pieces in Switzerland and many around the world such as this fine piece. Ugh!
The best analogy I can think of is buying Invicta is like buying a Honda. You can buy a quality low end model like a Civic but you can also buy a high end fully loaded Accord or whatever their top level model is. Now if you want a true elite luxury car, but will pay more and not necessarily the same amount of money per quality, I can buy a Mercedes. Now if you include Invicta’s new Reserve collection which is mostly if not all Swiss Made at a higher price, you might be able to compare that to say, Acura, which is made by the same company that produces Honda. I know this is not a true comparison, but you get the idea.
What would it take for Invicta to achieve full disclosure? What would you suggest they do differently?
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Post by MacDaddy on Sept 11, 2007 10:36:43 GMT -5
IMHO, I think that their are a lot of people who want a "Swiss Made" watch and unless you're an educated consumer, you can mistakenly get a "Swiss Mov't" and think it's been made in Switzerland. I know a few years back when I bought my first Invicta, I got a 9937 and thought it was Swiss Made when in fact, it is a Swiss Mov't. It was the careful wording that EL used that made me believe it was a Swiss Made watch. Not knowing the difference, I bought it. Boy, was I disappointed a year later!
Do I blame EL or myself for not being educated on the product? If I am so adamant about purchasing a "Swiss Made" timepiece, then I should know the difference.
I didn't know the difference and was upset about it. The average person that they're selling it to doesn't know the difference and probably doesn't care. I sold that piece to a friend and moved on. I've bought about a dozen Invictas, but have only purchased one in the last year and a half due to the QC issues I've read about here. I've seen, In My Opinion, the designs getting more garish and fad-like. I've seen the prices go up and the quality go down. For my tastes, I went from wanting one EVERY WEEK OTV to not seeing anything that's tickled my fancy in about a year. They seem to be a marketing company with the mission that ANY company has: to make sales. Anyone can attack EL, but the truth is, whether you believe it or not, he is a brilliant salesman and marketer. He's managed to personally raise automatic and mechanical watch sales in this country. He's given the everyday-man a new look at timepieces which were overlooked for a long period of time. Watches used to be a prized asset in this country in the day of Hamilton, Gruen, and Bulova. The quartz revolution made watches a cheap item that didn't matter. EL has turned that around. Why do you think Invicta has been able to secure movements and better products? I believe that "cartel" has been helping them raise sales in this country. It's something everyone's overlooked. I'm in marketing and can see it from a mile away.
I've personally made a decision to stop buying a lot of watches that cost several hundred dollars apiece and save it for my grail watch which I purchased this year. I'm content now. I no longer have been lusting for tons of watches, but that's just me. That doesn't mean I won't buy another Invicta, or Omega, or Timex, or Seiko.
I've learned over the years you don't buy a $2,500 watch from a company that makes most of their living making $200 watches. I personally won't spend more than $300 on an Invicta (with the exception of my Russian Diver).
Everyone has their expectations and levels. It doesn't matter if it's a five dollar cartoon watch or a Breguet. We all love watches and we should support each other with kindness and interest. We should be interested in the low-end Invictas as well as the high end. If people are having problems, they should be able to tell us about it. Others should also be able to defend the companies involved.
Obviously, in my opinion, there seems to be a problem with the brand since their is such a heated debate at this time. That means something has changed since this thread was started in a positive mode. That doesn't mean it can't change. A while ago, it was a very positive thread, now it's been getting a bit rough. Sign of the times? Frustration? You bet. Every company has rough times. Buy if you want to, or don't buy. Just be happy with what you do buy.
Let's support each other here. There's enough animosity in the real world. That's why we come here. To enjoy time with people who have the same interests and have fun!
MacDaddy
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Post by Rusty on Sept 11, 2007 10:47:13 GMT -5
Very well stated, MacDaddy.
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Post by MacDaddy on Sept 11, 2007 10:52:48 GMT -5
Thank you Rusty. It's been a while. Hope all is well my friend! MacDaddy
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Post by Datsun240Z71 on Sept 11, 2007 11:03:30 GMT -5
I've personally made a decision to stop buying a lot of watches that cost several hundred dollars apiece and save it for my grail watch which I purchased this year. I'm content now. I no longer have been lusting for tons of watches, but that's just me. That doesn't mean I won't buy another Invicta, or Omega, or Timex, or Seiko. I've learned over the years you don't buy a $2,500 watch from a company that makes most of their living making $200 watches. I personally won't spend more than $300 on an Invicta... MacDaddy That's where I'm at, and even moreso with a company that MAY not actually make any of their own watches in the first place, unlike Seiko, Citizen, Bulova, etc.
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Revolution
disciple
Pickin' and Grinnin"
Posts: 241
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Post by Revolution on Sept 11, 2007 11:08:49 GMT -5
Lots of good posts here. Harley-Davidson, the purveyor of "American-Made" motorcycles, gets a lot of their parts from overseas and assembles them here in the U.S. Fine and dandy, I'll accept that they are American-made. But even here in the U.S., we have guidelines for defining the authenticity of a product. My point is that lots of companies blur the lines between their corporate identity and where the products are manufactured. It's globalization man, and if it's not in your neighborhood yet, it's coming. Just ask the textile mill workers here in North Carolina. The Swiss have always had a problem with how to stay relevant when their tendency is to resist change. But I think the "Swiss Movement" concept is one way the Swiss Cartels are adopting to globalization. I really think that the purists are fighting a losing battle. Whereas in the past, the definitions of "Swiss-Made," etc have had to do with manufacturing process and location, it seems to me that purists want to amend the definition to "exclusively Swiss companies that adhere to the 'Swiss-Made' prescription." I can't imagine the Swiss actually cutting their throat like this and excluding companies like Invicta, which at the very least buy a lot of their movements and sell a ton of watches. Perhaps I am wrong and the Swiss will tighten their controls and try to strangle companies like Invicta out of the market, but I highly doubt it. It's a tough decision: retreat back into exclusivity and continue to control prices and restrict output, or continue to open yourself up to the growing world of more affordable high-quality timepieces. I think they will continue to choose the latter. I've got no problem that Invicta's headquarters is in Florida, as long as whoever is manufacturing their Swiss-Made watches is doing so in Switzerland. I trust that Eyal would not do something so foolish as to open himself up to consumer liability suits.
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Post by MacDaddy on Sept 11, 2007 12:38:53 GMT -5
I agree Revolution.
Everyone needs to realize that the origin of a part doesn't always add up to the whole. Most of the so-called "Swiss Made" watches use components from other countries. Yes, they do have to have 51% of the watch made and assembled in Switzerland. Yes, they are called Swiss Made, but I think everyone here fails to realize something.
It's not always about the parts, but the assembly, accuracy and adjustment of them. The Swiss have a reputation for fine timepieces for a reason. It isn't only the parts that they use, but the love, care, attention to detail and most of all the ART of making watches. It is the CULTURE there. It's about pride. They take pride in their work because they are as much artists as they are engineers, technicians and designers. That's something that most countries have forgotten, especially the U.S. The Swiss hold a high standard in their timepieces. It's national pride and job security. Germany is similiar. China could care less about what they produce, as long as they get the work and shovel it out by the billions. And let's face it, it shows.
When I unscrew the crown on my Invicta ETA 2824 and wind it, there is so much play in it. When I unscrew the crown on my Tissot ETA 2824 (Seastar 1000) and wind it, I can feel the tightness and accuracy to it. And I won't even mention how precise my Speedy is. Incredible.
You get what you pay for. In this day and age of CNC machines and computers, the Swiss aren't the only companies that can manufacture superior products. Granted, they have hundreds of years of information and experience, but I've seen watchmakers that weren't Swiss make watches better than a lot of Swiss companies.
It's kind of like if you're the first, you're the best. That isn't true, but we only remember Neil Armstrong or John Glenn as the best astronaut, Lon Chaney was the best make-up artist, Babe Ruth, Caruso, Cecil B. DeMille, etc. Sooner or later someone comes along who truly IS better, but the trailblazers are always known as being the best. Legendary.
I'm hoping for a day where an American watch company can be rebuilt to the standards of the old Hamilton or Bulova and produce mechanical movements to rival the Swiss.
The trouble is, the average person doesn't care. A watch is a watch.
But not to us WIS.
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Post by aerowizz on Sept 11, 2007 19:33:13 GMT -5
I want a Swiss Timepiece that is designed in Switzerland, made with Swiss precision machined parts, assembled in a Swiss factory by Swiss technicians whom are trained in the art and science of Swiss horology, and inspected by Swiss quality control engineers according to Swiss certified watchmaing standards......that my friends........ is a Swiss Timepiece...... I can only dream......
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Post by boscoe on Sept 11, 2007 19:41:36 GMT -5
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Post by amwilliams9 on Sept 11, 2007 20:23:04 GMT -5
Your dream is a reality. Check out Bedat. Every single piece of the watch (including the tiny little screws in the bracelet) is made and assembled in Switzerland - and certified Swiss Made to boot. Lovely brand, stunning fit and finish. Here's mine (and I'm planning to get another). However, they are not inexpensive: Had a chance to hold one of those in my hands. One word WOW!! simply stunning!!
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Post by markdl on Sept 11, 2007 20:40:08 GMT -5
Nice watch!! They certainly ain't inexpensive!!! But do you have the videotape to prove its of Swiss origin? And if you do have the tape, how do we know it's not manufactured on a Hollywood set like NASA did. Man on the moon my foot!!! ;D ;D There were some nice Bedat's on the SWI show and they looked like they were fairly large for once. Wish I could afford to give it a try. But if I did have the loot, I'd probably get a few of those sub aquas and a couple of those diamond pieces from Invicta instead. It's nice to dream isn't it.
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Post by boscoe on Sept 11, 2007 20:52:36 GMT -5
You're right, Mark. I am only taking their word it is entirely Swiss Made. But it did ship in a wheel of cheese.
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Post by markdl on Sept 11, 2007 21:22:06 GMT -5
Well, you know how I love cheese!
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Post by aerowizz on Sept 11, 2007 21:37:34 GMT -5
Are the screws made using Swiss steel from Swiss foundarys?
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