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Post by wally on Sept 10, 2007 14:12:56 GMT -5
Why?
Do you feel hurt if someone else compliments a watch that happens to be different from yours? I hold many watches in higher regard than the few ones I have in my collection. I wouldn't get offended if a watchmaker tells me that he'd rather work on a vintage Hamilton pocket watch this afternoon rather than servicing a common ETA powered Hamilton and that I'll have to wait to get my simple watch serviced. If that person has greater respect for a product over the one I've bought, could it possibly mean that the one he respects more is of higher quality or craftsmanship? Hmmm, everything goes back to quality.
If I'm eating a sandwich I bought from a deli, and am sitting next to someone who made their sandwich at home, and someone comes along and says they have greater respect for the guy who makes his meals rather than buys them, would I get offended?
Let me ask you this: if someone tells a friend of yours who's wearing a 20-dollar watch that he's made a wise purchase, and goads you for spending more way more money on your watch, would you get offended? Is that a direct attack?
What prejudices do you uphold against Timex if you think the fact that I admire a Timex owner more than an Invicta owner is a blatant insult?
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Post by amwilliams9 on Sept 10, 2007 14:33:02 GMT -5
Hmmm... It's The Original Invicta Watch forum.....No I am not hurt by your comments but lets say a new collector happens upon this forum. Just bought his/her first and hopefully not the last Invicta in watches. Sees the type of comments on this forum dedicated to Invicta watches...what do you think they would feel? It's not about saying what you feel it's about how you say it. I think we feel that it's a internet so what I can say what I feel they don't know me so there. What is that about? it's still communication and words that are typed can still have an effect on those who read them. Take a look into history.
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Post by amwilliams9 on Sept 10, 2007 14:37:03 GMT -5
By the way please go back reread your post. I think you will see what I mean.
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Post by koimaster on Sept 10, 2007 14:40:11 GMT -5
Wow! I know at least two posters from a forum I used to belong to and quite bluntly put, this is a quiet forum and I would prefer to keep it that way. I do know some were cautioned at the other forum about the attacks.
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Post by amwilliams9 on Sept 10, 2007 14:47:02 GMT -5
Wow! I know at least two posters from a forum I used to belong to and quite bluntly put, this is a quiet forum and I would prefer to keep it that way. I do know some were cautioned at the other forum about the attacks. Yeah you know me how is it going? I actually have been a member here almost a year. I am not attacking anyone and don't believe that I have said anything out of line. I am simply trying to make a point in regards to a post made by another member. It really now is pointless and I will leave the matter alone. Perhaps Invicta is this juggernaut that lies to customers misrepresents it's products. And maybe my Swiss made watches are not actually Swiss made. They are mine I like them and that's all that matters right?
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Post by wally on Sept 10, 2007 14:49:16 GMT -5
All right Buddy,
The message is simple. I do not condone a company that makes subpar products and over-hypes them, especially when there are competitors (Citizen, Seiko, Hamilton) that make rugged, stylish, long lasting watches of superior quality.
Just like I wouldn't go to a oil change that charges 50 dollars and takes 2 hours and does it wrong, when I could go to one down the street and get it done at the same price in less than 30 minutes and also have it down right. If you're an advocate of the company that takes 2 hours, then fine. Promote that company you like and vounch for it.
You're asking me to mask the truth of negative experiences with Invicta. That's what many fans here on the Invicta forum seeks to accomplish. That is one gig I simply will never succumb to, and many others won't as well.
A forum newbie should not be denied the knowledge of how people feel about watch companies they are interested in. If I stumbled in the middle of this when I first bought my Invicta, of course I would've felt a bit hurt because because nobody likes to be ripped off. But in the long run, I would really appreciated knowing he truth about Invicta before buying more watches from them, and wasting all of that money on broken products while I could've purchased functioning watches from serious watchmakers at, or around Invicta's price range.
Koi, a shady company deserve not praises. Nor does a failing student deserve congratulations, nor does a faulty product warrant purchasing. I've seen the conviction with which you've posted on controversial issues further down the site, and I've not gone anywhere near the bluntness with which you've treated more conservative members to.
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Post by boscoe on Sept 10, 2007 15:06:21 GMT -5
Okay guys. Let us all be gentlemen - and remember we share more than divides us. We all love watches. Please?
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Post by amwilliams9 on Sept 10, 2007 15:16:49 GMT -5
Okay guys. Let us all be gentlemen - and remember we share more than divides us. We all love watches. Please? Thanks Boscoe This is just my point. It's about watch collecting regardless of our chosen brand. It does not matter what anyone likes you like Fossil show a pic tell me about it. I won't clown you about it or tell you that is a pos company. I will love to see everything you got. Have a problem with your watch I'll tell you how sorry I am about your problem and try to help you if I can. I won't tell you that you made a mistake with your purchase after all it's about watches. At some point I think most of you/us started with Invicta moved on and are happy with what we've progressed on to. So why can't we let others behind us do the same? I'm not saying we can't voice our opinions about Invicta but WOW demeaning a member because He/She bought one? It's not right JMO.
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Post by koimaster on Sept 10, 2007 15:52:46 GMT -5
I have posted before that enjoy your watches and that is it. Lots of brands have problems, some more then others but nothing seems to bring out the hostility more then watches sold on air for some reason.
This is a forum dedicated to watches and some political comments (just kidding). Don't like what someone says, ignore them on the subject. Not every post needs a response. Some are just not worth responding to.
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Post by TimeBandit on Sept 10, 2007 16:11:59 GMT -5
First off, thanks to automatik for posting above the Federation of Swiss watch Industry criteria on Swiss made watches. No matter how many times I read that, I can never seem to spit it back out in coherent terms. I'll have to copy that somewhere and keep it for future reference. It is so hard for any of us to remember the exact criteria that the Federation has established for timepieces that are made in Switzerland and the ones that are assembled elsewhere but use the words Swiss (only), Swiss Made or Swiss Movement. The following is my attempt to reconstruct the information to get my mind around it a bit better: Swiss Made at the 6:00 position = Timepiece that contains a Swiss made movement* and is assembled and inspected by a manufacturer in Switzerland. Swiss Movement at the 6:00 position (w/ movement spelled out!) = Timepiece that contains a Swiss made movement* but is assembled outside of Switzerland. *Swiss made movement = Movement that was assembled in Switzerland where the components of manufacture, not including assembly, account for over 50% of its value…however that can be measured! If the movement fits these criteria, Swiss can be written on some component of the movement. Now this brings me to what I see as the real issue at hand. Now correct me if I’m wrong. I’ve only known about Invicta for about a year now. I don’t know how far back and how many of their watches say Swiss Made or Swiss Movement at the 6:00 position, but I know they have a number of models now that do display Swiss Made. I’m now realizing that many of you likely bought Invicta watches assuming they had some sort of manufacturing location in Switzerland and were based out of Switzerland, but at some point began to doubt that assumption. So the obvious question would be, how can they produce Swiss made pieces without having such and are they really a Swiss Watch company? The next obvious question would be do they adhere to the Federation criteria for their watches that have Swiss Made or Swiss Movement on the face of their watches? We hope so!!! Even if we like what we bought, I doubt that many of us want to be taken advantage of, thinking we bought a product that was produced within the same standards that the widely accepted Swiss brands work under such as Rolex and others. I’m not saying same quality, but same standards as described above. Lastly, a 3rd question that some of us might be asking is, is Invicta using the label Swiss Movt on many of their pieces misleading and something that made some of us believe the watches we bought were something they are not. AS for me, I didn’t become aware until after I bought my first Invicta (Lugano) that watches that have anything other than Swiss Made or Swiss Movement written out at the 6:00 position are most likely manufactured outside of Switzerland and have a movement that was not manufactured their either or consisted of a lot of parts made outside that country. My Lugano says Swiss Movt, which at the time I purchased it, I thought was made in Switzerland. I thought Lalo and/or Jim described it as a Swiss timepiece on that shopping network. I’d have to go back and see if I can access the original show where they hocked the piece to see for sure what they actually said. As for the true make-up of the piece, my guess is that the watch was assembled outside of Switzerland and contains a movement (Swiss quartz ISA 9238) that was either made predominantly of Swiss parts but assembled elsewhere, or contains too many non-Swiss parts but was assembled in Switzerland or…well you get the picture. Now a year later, I’m a year wiser. My other two Invictas say Swiss Made at the 6:00 position. I bought them both because of the way the looked, the perceived quality of the manufacturing and movements (in the case of my LE TT Pro Diver, I wanted a Swiss made automatic movement) and them being true Swiss Made pieces, which I hope they are in accordance to the Federation. If I ever found out that’s not the case, I’d be very disappointed and taken advantage of by Invicta. As for the Lugano, I chalk that up to ignorance on my part, though do wonder exactly how much cheese is in that watch. As for any future purchases of any timepiece that says anything other than Swiss Made or Swiss Movement at the 6:00 position, I wouldn’t have any problem doing so knowing that I might be buying something that, as Bosco once put it, might have simply been on some plane that touched down on a Swiss Airport to refuel on it’s way to Asia. I think it was him who wrote something like that. Now is it right for any company to print Swiss Movt or whatever deviates from the standard on any of its pieces? Is it wrong for someone selling such pieces and claiming their Swiss watches? Unless some sort of international governing body can come up with standards that are more stringent, this whole issue will come up over and over again, in various different forms. As it stands now, any company could establish some sort of office in Switzerland and call some of their product Swiss Watches for a variety of reasons. Is that what Invicta has done. Have they addresses it in part by having an assembly facility in Switzerland? Does acquiring a company that manufacturers a Swiss movement, which seems in questions, make them more authentically Swiss? Is there enough gray here to make us believe that any Invicta product is no more than a poorman’s Swiss product compared to authentic Swiss timepieces made by brands that manufacture only products that meet the standard and might even come nowhere close to having 50% of non-Swiss to their products? Does it really matter in the first place if many of their products performs and are made as well if not better than ones made by some of these other companies that stick to a higher standard with most or all of their products? Sorry to have spiraled out of control with this response. I don’t know how to answer some of those questions for myself, and it wouldn’t be fair to even attempt to answer them for anyone but myself. If I had a lot more disposable income, Maybe I’d spend my money only on timepieces made by companies that I felt used full disclosure to their products. I can completely understand why some have stopped buying Invicta for this reason and for their disdain for Invicta’s poor QC and CS, though that’s a totally different issue. I should not have brought that one up. Now since my budget can’t afford watches in the thousands and very high hundreds, Invicta gives me a good bang for my buck and until I find out that they have not been forthcoming with who they are and what their product is, I’ll continue to buy them, that is once I an afford another watch. I do feel bad for consumers that bought and will buy any time piece that they think is Swiss Made but turns out to be something else.
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Post by boscoe on Sept 10, 2007 16:16:49 GMT -5
@time: there is a copy in the review and reference forum.
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Post by aerowizz on Sept 10, 2007 18:37:26 GMT -5
If the timepiece does not say "Swiss Made" at the 6:00 position I am not buying it, not matter what the brand is. Period! Ok, let me go run for cover now........
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Post by boscoe on Sept 10, 2007 20:29:38 GMT -5
No running for cover Aero. I generally share your sentiment. But Japan, Russia and Italy turn out some nifty timepieces.
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Post by Rusty on Sept 10, 2007 21:22:24 GMT -5
aero,
You can run but you can't hide. We can track you by the chip imbedded in your Russian Diver. ;D
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Post by markdl on Sept 10, 2007 22:27:10 GMT -5
Wow! There's a lot of posting going on here! I come home from work, grade lots of papers and now I've got all this to read! I can't get to it all now, but I hope no one's too upset and the debating is of a good-natured sort. I enjoy the verbal sparring with the naysayers and always try to inject some humor to lighten things up, but some seem to really get upset! This ain't the place to do so. It's our happy place, a place to escape the real problems that exist in the world. A place to share our joy of watches and on this forum, our joy of the Invicta Watch brand. Problems may occur with this brand as they do with every other brand in existence and feel free to discuss those problems. But this is not the place to attack the brand or one another in a disagreeable manner. I love my Invictas and other watches, and like to share that joy with all the others who enjoy Invictas and all other types of watches. I've owned about 20+ Invictas and about 15 other watches from brands like Seiko, Renato, Swiss Legend, JL, Oceanaut and others, never had a problem with any of them and enjoy them. I'll never buy an Omega, Rolex and many other brands because they're overpriced IMO and plus I'm broke! But I would never belittle the brand or the people who enjoy them on WTF. This is a friendly place. There are plenty of other forums who engage in the my brand is better than yours and your brand sucks talk. I happened to find those first. But when I discovered what John had put together, I left those others behind. This is our happy place. Leave all the anger, lack of humor and tolerance for a variety of brands at the other places. Let's enjoy our watches here.
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