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Post by Birdman on Sept 9, 2007 11:28:31 GMT -5
Ok I give, still like Invicta and will still buy Invicta. Question, if I go out and spend 3x that much money for a watch made in Germany what assurances do I have that watch was actually made there. There are lots of watch companies making these claims with no real governing rules.
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Post by Datsun240Z71 on Sept 9, 2007 11:33:42 GMT -5
Birdman,
I was in no way criticizing Invicta, as they are not the only ones who seem to use the SWISS MOVT designation on their dials. I just think it's questionable that they do so, as it seems to take advantage of using the word Swiss. There's a thread over in the General Forum regarding a SWI product called Swiss Legend that uses this same designation on their dial.
Buy what you like... like what you buy.
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Post by koimaster on Sept 9, 2007 11:56:32 GMT -5
If Eyal says they have a factory in Switzerland, I have no problem believing him. Why would he bother lying when such things don't effect his sales? If it's just a factory in Switzerland or it has Invicta's name on the building, it's made in Switzerland. Are we as watch buyers like those wacky dog owners who pay thousands for a dog and have to have papers tracing it's ancestry back a hundred years? Are we like the snooty aristocracy who care if you come from old money or royalty? I say nope. Invicta lovers want a watch that's well-made, looks nice, and we can afford. We'll leave all that other nonsense to the folks with the deep pockets to spend 5, 10, 20 grand and up on a watch. I know I can't afford to have such class and sophistication. I can barely pay attention. ;D ;D They do not have a factory for Invicta in Cheese land. S.Coifman does have one there and they are now part of Invicta. Invicta along with that purchase acquired a Swiss Ebauche maker which had been making many of the works for S.Coifman. This is according to posts at several other forums. If memory serves me correctly, JS confirmed this.
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Post by koimaster on Sept 9, 2007 12:10:46 GMT -5
And the above statement by JS gets right to the heart of the matter. It is not just Invicta that s being deceptive. Uneducated watch buyers are depending on what the seller is telling them. If you listen to the sellers you can see a bit of a dance. Now to the credit of most hosts on TV shows, they do try to correct the vendors as best they can. But if you listen to the Chessehead and Daniel Mink, they say whatever it takes to sell their product. If the truth is bent a bit by them, it is on them. I take whatever they say with a grain of salt and as being a carnival barker’s shill. With that said, I own 15 Invicta and like the ones I have and I did a recount, 11 Renato watches now. I buy them despite the verbiage spilling out of the mouths of the vendor. Almost all of the watches sold on TV are made in China. Almost every watchmaker in the world has parts made in China. Just remember though that most factory workers in Asia work in terrible conditions with little in the way of benefits other then being allowed to live another day.
I make no apologies for that viewpoint. I remember Red China; I served in Vietnam and saw how conditions were for workers throughout Asia. If it came down to price being the only difference on two similar watches made in Asia or elsewhere, I would rather pay the higher price for the watch made elsewhere.
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Post by markdl on Sept 9, 2007 13:18:43 GMT -5
So Eyal does have a watch factory in Switzerland and now a movement factory. That's great, but as long as they keep making watches I like, they can make them in Joe's basement, and I'll be happy.
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Post by foghorn on Sept 9, 2007 13:52:25 GMT -5
Who's Joe??? ;D ;D
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Post by udxtdk9 on Sept 9, 2007 14:11:18 GMT -5
@markld: I'm one of those wacky dog owners. My dogs are first and foremost pets and members of the family, but they are also expected to perform in competitions. As such, I want the best temperament and trainability. I wouldn't be comfortable putting a great deal of time and effort into a dog I got from a shelter or backyard breeder. I do a lot of research into the background of my dogs, and their lines can probably be traced back more generations than mine. That is an important hobby of mine, but if I didn't do it, I would be comfortable with a shelter pet that I was permitted to evaluate throughly. Some feel the same about the watches they buy. I realize you'll say anything in defense of EL and co, but that didn't make for a good one, IMHO, and couldn't let it go without comment.
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Post by Datsun240Z71 on Sept 9, 2007 14:15:48 GMT -5
The company that Eyal bought is in Japan according to Jim Skelton. I DISTINCTLY remember him confirming that elsewhere because that movement maker produced the skeletonized recent Invicta OTV offering on ShopNBC about three months back.
Here's the quote: Invicta owns Technica Ebauche, a Japanese movement manufacturer.....
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Post by Birdman on Sept 9, 2007 14:46:53 GMT -5
@datsun, My post was in reference to the thread swiss made and not to anyone in particular, my views are my own and my humble apologies if taken differently than intended I simply support brands I like as we all do. koimaster, I agree with you wholeheartedly and if I could do so I would never by any product using child labor or any labor for that matter with deplorable working conditions. This is happening more and more even in our own country! As a consumer I am simply stating that if my watch says SWISS MADE in the appropriate location on the watch then I assume it has met all guidelines that would entitle that designation. This is not to say by any means that I believe it to be of the same quality or go through the same rigorous testing that many other brands do.
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Post by Rusty on Sept 9, 2007 15:37:55 GMT -5
There is no question based on the number of posts that this and similar threads generate that there are loopholes in the current Federation rules. That is why it has proposed changes to toughen the rules of definition for SWISS MADE. However, if adopted, those rules may not take effect for several years.
It sure makes for good converstation though.
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Post by Datsun240Z71 on Sept 9, 2007 15:47:46 GMT -5
It would be nice if the companies would police themselves and use the rules and markings as intended, no matter the country of origin.
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Post by markdl on Sept 9, 2007 16:44:17 GMT -5
@markld: I'm one of those wacky dog owners. My dogs are first and foremost pets and members of the family, but they are also expected to perform in competitions. As such, I want the best temperament and trainability. I wouldn't be comfortable putting a great deal of time and effort into a dog I got from a shelter or backyard breeder. I do a lot of research into the background of my dogs, and their lines can probably be traced back more generations than mine. That is an important hobby of mine, but if I didn't do it, I would be comfortable with a shelter pet that I was permitted to evaluate throughly. Some feel the same about the watches they buy. I realize you'll say anything in defense of EL and co, but that didn't make for a good one, IMHO, and couldn't let it go without comment. If your dog is a member of the family, you should love it no matter what, who cares about it's background. Same with a watch, if you like it you like it. But at the end of the day, it's a dog and it's a just a watch, you always seem to get so upset and uptight about things that should bring happiness. Lighten up and enjoy your dogs and watches. I like my Invicta watches and think they're great. Your hang ups don't have to be mine. I wouldn't have traded my mutt from my childhood for all the award winning dogs in the world and I won't dislike my Invictas for all the watches you think are so much better. Long live Eyal Lalo and the Invicta Watch Group!!
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Post by udxtdk9 on Sept 9, 2007 18:25:26 GMT -5
@markld: I too loved my mixed breeds from childhood, but this is a different ballgame, and they wouldn't even be allowed to compete. Some spend big bucks on, for example, motorcycles, certain autos, or other hobbies. Mine is working with a dog for years, taking him into buildings with sometimes thousands of other dogs, doing demos at schools, and teaching obedience classes. So your silly example, or telling me that I should be happy with a mutt doesn't fly for me. What I wrote had nothing to do with Invicta watches, just replying to your rather distasteful argument. I doubt you'd ever get it anyway. The nice thing is that I am at a place where breeders want me to have their dogs, so I no longer have to pay for them. Enjoy your watches. No jumping yellow faces for me.
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Post by markdl on Sept 9, 2007 19:17:10 GMT -5
I do enjoy my watches. You try to enjoy your dogs.
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Post by tatooine315 on Sept 9, 2007 19:30:48 GMT -5
I agree with markdl. I am a new member, I joined because I like The INVICTA family but some people on here jest plain complain...I have been put down for my OPINIONs and called an INVICTA CHEERLEADER, Not that I am crying over a forum that I will most likely never meet anyone of the folks floating around in cyberspace...Oh and I like a good debate and forum...But I dont understand why some people just like complaining....I am not trying to be sassy or offend anyone...But look if you hate or dont trust Invicta DONT BUY IT...But dont say random things just to try to persuade others that INVICTA is bad or cheap or shoddy...These are all just my opinions and in no way do I want to offend anyone...I agree with markdl..Just enjoy your passions weather it be dogs, cars, or INVICTA watches...
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