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Post by Rusty on Sept 8, 2007 9:10:18 GMT -5
From my days as a TV reporter many, many years ago, my BS detector goes off when even a privately held company like Invicta is so secretive about their business and where they conduct it. They really exert maximum control over what is communicated about them. . . except on watch forums like this where it is mostly conjecture, opinion, or wild rumor.
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Post by tatooine315 on Sept 8, 2007 10:33:46 GMT -5
MY OPINION IS....If you have so much distrust in somthing I personally would look somewhere else....I wouldn't fixate on it and ruin it for others.....I hate YOGURT so I dont go near it...Buy it...Or even think about it...Strange?
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Post by markdl on Sept 8, 2007 11:53:01 GMT -5
As long as Invicta keeps making watches I like, it doesn't matter to me where they are made.
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Post by tatooine315 on Sept 8, 2007 12:39:00 GMT -5
Thank GOD someone who agrees with my opinion...I really like Invicta...And I also will keep buying them (See my new one on the other thread SATURDAY WATCH CALL)
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Post by TimeBandit on Sept 8, 2007 12:47:49 GMT -5
Is the issue that they have manufacturing outside of Switzerland as well as within that country or is the issue that some of their watches labeled Swiss Made aren't made in Switzerland? I think it's the latter w/ the caveat, what exactly does Swiss Made mean to Invicta.
Now I never can remember if I get this right, but one of the industry standards for the label Swiss Made means at least 51% of the parts have to be manufactured in Switzerland (I think that means 51% of the movement) and the watch is assembled in Switzerland as well. Did I get that right?
Now I don't know what Swiss Made means from the other high end Swiss Watch makers. If their company standards means 100% on both or 90% or whatever, how does that change the way we view Invicta timepieces?
As long as Invicta doesn't label a watch that doesn't match the industry standard, but does have less swiss to them than a Rolex for instance, but cost thousands less, how does that change one's perspective?
Here's my take. As long as Invicta meets the industry agreed upon standards, where their Swiss Made meet the standard, where their Swiss Parts, meets that standard which I believe is quite vague and their other pieces that don't say either are still a good quality for their price, I'm okay with that.
Two of my 3 pieces say Swiss Made, look great, look quality made and are still holding up. My other one says swiss parts movt and has held up fine though the plating on the band has not help up well. All three pieces IMHO are great values, i.e. good price for the quality I received.
I couldn't be happier with my LE TT Pro Diver which is a homage of the much more expensive Rolex. Since my budget would never be enough to purchase the Rolex, Invicta made it possible to own a piece that looks pretty d@mn close to the original. Not that it matters, I didn't even know it was a homage before I fell in love with the piece. I would have bought it regardless. I feel very good about what I got for the price I paid. Isn't that what should matter? Please note that I'm not saying the LE Pro Diver is made as well as the Rolex or has materials and movement as quality either, but the bang for the buck is plenty good enough for me and looks pretty darn close.
Now as long as Invicta manufactures the lower end pieces in their non-Swiss factories and doesn't break any of the rules as far as how they label each timepiece, is there really any problem? I guess you could add to this that they use the proper terminology in their advertisement and in those TV programs as well.
Is there something that I'm misunderstanding in this thread?
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Post by Rusty on Sept 8, 2007 15:36:46 GMT -5
I don't think there is a problem. The issue for the purists amongst us is whether Invicta owns a factory in Switzerland or farms out the manufacturing of some of their watches to Swiss factories that do that sort of thing. An explanation always seems murky. Another murky question? Supposedly, Eyal is from Panama. I have a former student from Israel who swears that Eyal's accent is Israeli. It really doesn't matter but the company has reported that they have a factory in Panama. And keep in mind that Brizo and Activa, both Invicta brands, are popular watches in Latin America. As for a manufacturing facility in China (Hong Kong?) just about everyone else has watches made there. Even some ETA movements are made there. JL and SWI have many watches that come from the far east. I think the recent Renato OTV was made in Asia. If comparable watches were made in Europe or the USA, they would be much more expensive because of labor cost differentials. It seems to come down to Invicta Watch Group seeming to be so publicly guarded about where they are located and what they really do. But they certainly do make nice watches for the money. That is why I own more than 20 of them.
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Post by tatooine315 on Sept 8, 2007 16:32:26 GMT -5
Tellitubbies are from Tellitububbie Land....Is there REALLY a Tellitubbie Land? I like INVICTA Give me an I Give me a N Give me...............Sorry somone called me an INVICTA Cheerleader so I was doing a CHEER! YEAH!!!! Happy Collecting see ya..R
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Post by Rusty on Sept 8, 2007 18:02:47 GMT -5
Is this you, tat?
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Post by foghorn on Sept 8, 2007 18:22:45 GMT -5
Wasn't one of the teletubbies named Lalo?
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Post by Birdman on Sept 8, 2007 19:15:44 GMT -5
The big ol yellow russian diver sitting on my arm says swiss made below the 6' oclock position just as does any other swiss made watch. I don't really care if it was farmed out to someone in Switzerland to put together. Its a beautiful high quality watch that I got from Amazon for a total of 168.00 including tax! I assume it meets all the necessary requirements or they would be in trouble for false advertising. Oh it also came with an Invicta pack pack that looks to be of a very nice quality.
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Post by boscoe on Sept 9, 2007 8:53:03 GMT -5
The issue isn't that Invicta farms out it's Swiss Made watch assembly. The issue is Invicta works hard, very hard, to give you the impression it doesn't. Invicta would love you to think they have a factory in Switzerland busy producing their watches. This certainly wasn't true several years ago. The company has grown and acquired other brands, so they may have it now - however I seriously doubt it and have seen no tangible evidence. But I'll echo Rusty's sentiment - after 40 years as a journalist my BS radar is pretty reliable and it sounds frequently when The Lalo talks.
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Post by Datsun240Z71 on Sept 9, 2007 9:32:01 GMT -5
The thing to remember is that the "Swiss rules" apply only to Swiss made watches, so there are basically no rules pertaining to what is put on the dial (SWISS MOVT for example) if the watches are built elsewhere. Jim Skelton cleared this up for me on another forum during a discussion of this subject.
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Post by Agent Orange on Sept 9, 2007 9:45:00 GMT -5
This from the Federation of the Swiss Watch Industry's Web site: As we have seen, to be Swiss, a watch must use a Swiss movement. According to Section 2 OSM, a movement is considered to be Swiss if: it has been assembled in Switzerland; it has been inspected by the manufacturer in Switzerland; and the components of Swiss manufacture account for at least 50 percent of the total value, without taking into account the cost of assembly. If the movement fulfills these conditions, but the watch is not assembled in Switzerland, the "Swiss" indication may be affixed to one of the components of the movement. On the outside of the watch, may then only appear the "mouvement suisse" or "Swiss movement" indication. Section 3 § 3 OSM requires that the word "movement" appear in full, and be written in the same type-face, of identical size and colour, as the word "Swiss". Right Wrong - www.fhs.ch
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Post by markdl on Sept 9, 2007 10:58:26 GMT -5
If Eyal says they have a factory in Switzerland, I have no problem believing him. Why would he bother lying when such things don't effect his sales? If it's just a factory in Switzerland or it has Invicta's name on the building, it's made in Switzerland. Are we as watch buyers like those wacky dog owners who pay thousands for a dog and have to have papers tracing it's ancestry back a hundred years? Are we like the snooty aristocracy who care if you come from old money or royalty?
I say nope. Invicta lovers want a watch that's well-made, looks nice, and we can afford. We'll leave all that other nonsense to the folks with the deep pockets to spend 5, 10, 20 grand and up on a watch. I know I can't afford to have such class and sophistication. I can barely pay attention. ;D ;D
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Post by Datsun240Z71 on Sept 9, 2007 10:59:38 GMT -5
This from the Federation of the Swiss Watch Industry's Web site: As we have seen, to be Swiss, a watch must use a Swiss movement. According to Section 2 OSM, a movement is considered to be Swiss if: it has been assembled in Switzerland; it has been inspected by the manufacturer in Switzerland; and the components of Swiss manufacture account for at least 50 percent of the total value, without taking into account the cost of assembly. If the movement fulfills these conditions, but the watch is not assembled in Switzerland, the "Swiss" indication may be affixed to one of the components of the movement. On the outside of the watch, may then only appear the "mouvement suisse" or "Swiss movement" indication. Section 3 § 3 OSM requires that the word "movement" appear in full, and be written in the same type-face, of identical size and colour, as the word "Swiss". Right Wrong - www.fhs.chRight, But as JS pointed out to me, if the watch is assembled in for example Asia, and has a Swiss movement, the Swiss rules are unenforceable so if they want to put Swiis Movt on the dial, they can without recourse. I'm not saying it's right, just the way iot is if the companies choose to do it. Here is his post after I posted the same rules as above: I don't know why this is always argued (here and elsewhere).... The Swiss Federation rules over Swiss MADE watches, and designations. They do not govern watches made elsewhere and only get involved if a watch made elsewhere falsely uses the "SWISS" or "Swiss Made" designations. If the watch is made in Hong Kong with a Swiss movement, they can put anything they'd like on the dial except for "SWISS" at the 6, or "Swiss Made" because it is not either of those. You can make a watch in your basement in Utah and put "Rubber Band Movement" on the dial... that has nothing to do with the Swiss federation, Swiss Made designations, or anything else Swiss. Hope this helps.
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