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Post by palidin on Feb 8, 2007 3:33:07 GMT -5
My new Chronomat Evolution seems to be gaining about 20 seconds a day. How does this happen? I guess the "15 days and 15 nights" of testing by COSC guarantees nothing.
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Post by Scott D on Feb 8, 2007 7:27:18 GMT -5
Hi Palidin,
Wow.. That is alot of time to be gaining.. Well outside the COSC specs. You mention it's new, is it very new? A new watch can take a several weeks to settle in... If youre not already, make sure you wear or wind the watch every day for at a month & then it should settle in. Hopefully, after this period you should see it go to more accurate gains / losses. If it's still gaining that much, take it in to be serviced as that should be covered as it's outside the COSC.
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Post by rickatkins on Feb 8, 2007 7:48:49 GMT -5
Hi Palidin,
Scott's right that is too much of an inaccuracy for a Breitling if it is after it's "running in" period and any respectable dealer will get this regulated for you within the warranty period.
However, I'm not so sure that they are oblibated to do this. Only the movement of your watch would have been certified a chronometer by the COSC. Many things could happen to the watch whilst it is being cased up. I'm sure Breitling then subject the watch to some accuracy testing, along with water resistancy, etc. before shipping it out. However, my question to the forum is: Does a dealer have to verify and then regulate a COSC certified watch that has been returned by the owner for accuracy deficiencies?
Good luck in sorting this out Palidin. I'm sure you'll be able to get the accuracy you expect without too much hassle.
Rick.
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Post by Scott D on Feb 8, 2007 8:04:54 GMT -5
Hey Rick,
I don't think the dealer has any responsibility to do this as it's the manufactures warranty, not the dealers. But like you said most will do it, especially for being off that amount. It's not a major procedure for them. After all, it's good post-sales support and it generates good will & customer loyalty. If my watch was that far out & the dealer wouldn't try to fix it for me before sending it out to the manufacture (especially given the delays some manufactures have), I'd find another dealer.
But, Palidin, I wouldn't take it to the dealer until you've allowed it the break-in period. Otherwise, they'll probably tell you to wait for that period of time.
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Post by Houston on Feb 8, 2007 8:42:21 GMT -5
Thing is though, it should run -6 to +4 being COSC-certified, running-in time or otherwise. 20 secs is a lot and the watch may have been magnetised perhaps or manhandled when it was with the dealer. Just wondering - has anyone had a watch performing so way out during the running-in period? Under trade descriptions legislation, the watch has to perform within the parameters as described or you are entitled to a new one or your money back. How long have you had it, Palidin, if I may ask please? To answer your point Rick, if it is outside the prescribed limits, you are well within your rights as a consumer to ask for the matter to be resolved. Under consumer law, though the manufacturer offers the warranty, you have a claim against the dealer. The watch is not " merchantable quality " if it is meant to perform within COSC limits and is 5x off it. It's part of your statutory rights. He could send it to the manufacturer for you and you'd probably prefer that anyway. If the watch performs outside the prescribed limits, the manufacturer has to put it right in any case but the dealer is accountable to you and if it is under a month old, you have a right to ask for another watch or your money back. Sadly, you'll find some dealer making a hue and cry over this but they are crossing the line if you do not receive satisfaction. Cheers pals ZIN
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Post by rickatkins on Feb 8, 2007 12:29:27 GMT -5
To answer your point Rick, if it is outside the prescribed limits, you are well within your rights as a consumer to ask for the matter to be resolved. Under consumer law, though the manufacturer offers the warranty, you have a claim against the dealer. The watch is not " merchantable quality " if it is meant to perform within COSC limits and is 5x off it. It's part of your statutory rights. He could send it to the manufacturer for you and you'd probably prefer that anyway. If the watch performs outside the prescribed limits, the manufacturer has to put it right in any case but the dealer is accountable to you and if it is under a month old, you have a right to ask for another watch or your money back. Sadly, you'll find some dealer making a hue and cry over this but they are crossing the line if you do not receive satisfaction. Cheers pals ZIN Thank for you input Zin, However, my point is: What are the prescribed limits. We all know what the limits are for the movement at the COSC laboratory. But what are the accuracy limits when the watch is sold complete to the customer on the high street? Of course, we would all argue that it should still be the +6/-4 seconds per day and, I'm sure, all AD's will respect this for a chronometer watch but this is not truly the case is it? The new German certification for accuracy at Wempe's laboratory in Glashutte addresses this situation by testing the watches submitted to them fully cased up. It's just something that I think is taken for granted, that's all. Not sure I've explained my self successfully here but, hopefully, you'll get the gist. Rick.
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Post by Houston on Feb 8, 2007 12:40:09 GMT -5
;D ;D yep I get the gist Rick. I still maintain the COSC parameters though. They market them that way, they had better make them that way. Guess I take the consumer point of view, if you get my meaning. See ya pal ZIN
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Post by palidin on Feb 8, 2007 22:03:42 GMT -5
The whole story: I bought this watch in Vegas at Tourneau about two weeks ago. I live in Oklahoma. I spoke with a watchmaker at the local AD this morning, described the problem, and he said to bring it in to be regulated, which would take two days max. He didn't seem concerned with the fact that I bought it from another AD. I asked him about a "break in" period, and he said he hardly thought that would account for such a variance. I'm taking it in tomorrow morning. I'll keep you posted. I really can't believe this. You folks have no idea how long I've waited and saved for this watch. Story of my life- I spend $5000.00 on a watch and it doesn't even run right.
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Post by eddie on Feb 8, 2007 22:51:26 GMT -5
Palidin this can and will happen with every mechanical watch I had a new Rolex GMT II with a crown problem in less that 10 days after purchased I know how you feel, is frustrating but, you spent your money in an excellent brand and they will do the right thing and will make it perfect for you, I'm sure
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Post by larry on Feb 9, 2007 7:14:08 GMT -5
I'm planning to buy a Breitling soon, either a Chronomat Evolution or a Cockpit but this is very discouraging. My question is this: If automatics need a break-in period before acheiving their best accuracy how do they get COSC approval on unbroke-in movements? In other words, if they don't run at full efficiency right out of the box how do they pass the COSC process? Or conversely if they pass COSC when new do they change for the worse when they break in?
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Post by Houston on Feb 9, 2007 7:53:01 GMT -5
I have no experience of Betta Brita Breitlings as I call them but it's my humble 2c that Mr Palidin was unlucky with the watch. Most automatics dare I say it, if COSC-certified do operate within prescribed parameters. If not, either AD and certainly the manufacturer would be only too pleased and apologetic too I would say and indeed make haste to resolve the problem. It's no comfort to our friend Palidin but these things unfortunately do happen, be it to a watch, car, computer, anything man-made. Hopefully you'll be accorded cordial and courteous service and once the problem is resolved my friend, you'll no doubt enjoy the watch immensely. Here's to that day Cheers for now ZIN
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Post by palidin on Feb 9, 2007 12:38:47 GMT -5
I dropped it off at my local AD this morning. They were very good about it, told me there would be no charge, that they would regulate it as a courtesy. I should have it back Monday afternoon.
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Post by Houston on Feb 9, 2007 14:05:43 GMT -5
Jolly good show. Thanks for updating us and indeed I'm sure that AD will more than likely be assured of business from you in the future. There really is no matching good service. Perhaps they may be a store whose identity you would be happy to reveal to members if asked. Enjoy your weekend Mr Palidin, though I'm sure you're looking forward to Monday Best WIShes ZIN
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Post by Scott D on Feb 9, 2007 15:42:00 GMT -5
Hi Palidin, Glad to hear they took it in to solve for you. Hopefully, once you have it back it'll be holding the time as expected, and this will just be a memory of the past for you & you'll have years of enjoyment from the watch. Incidentally, I was in one of the AD's a few hours ago and the sales manager had just came back from a trip to the Breitling plant. He was telling me how Breitling tests all the movements once they are received back from the COSC center and completed and ready for shipment. He said they are tested multiple ways by Breitling after COSC testing, just in case something happened during shipment. He was quite impressed with the total operation. I mentioned this issue to him, and he said he does see it from time to time where the watch is just off after it's sold. He's seen some worse than the 20 seconds, and said a simple regulating is all that is needed. He also said it's extremely rare, but sometimes things happen during shipment that will throw-off the watch. As Zin said, it happens with everything man-made, but when it happens to you it still is disappointing.... But, at least it'll be regulated & you'll be enjoying it once it's back!
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Post by palidin on Feb 13, 2007 20:58:35 GMT -5
I got my watch back yesterday. It gained 8 seconds in the first day. That's much better, but not the "+2" for Chronometre standards. I'll call the watchmaker back tomorrow. Perhaps I'll have to wait a while and see how the movement settles in. I called a buddy w/ a B2, and he said his was running +6secs. when he took delivery two years ago, and is now running -6secs. Not very impressive for a $5000.00 "chronometre" as far as I can tell.
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