|
Post by slife on Nov 24, 2007 10:33:47 GMT -5
I guess my last post was not so clear. I meant a Patek, but I do see your point.
|
|
|
Post by timefinder on Nov 24, 2007 23:56:21 GMT -5
It is rather sad when people 'showboat' or brag about their watches. When they do, I politely excuse myself and leave. It is one thing to show a watch to someone who is interested; but, to brag is quite classless IMHO.
|
|
|
Post by goodwatchgoodtime on Nov 25, 2007 1:35:16 GMT -5
I know a guy in the industry who has some contacts and some insight into such things. Last year at Basel he had lunch with Rolf Schnyder and Ludwig Oechslin and toured the UN manufacture. So I asked him about all of those 200,000usd and up watches. Do they just make them for rich fools with nothing else to do with their money? Do they put a little polish on them and jack up the price to just be "exclusive"? He said "it's more of an ego thing for the company. They do it because they can, for bragging rights, they pretty much break even on the cost of the watch." WTF??? (that means watch talk forum BTW). How can that be? Here is his explanation... They get an idea for an exclusive watch from a world class watch designer (think Frank Lloyd Wright, Steven Spielberg, Jackson Pollock, etc., to get a handle on the hourly rate for these guys). Then they have to make it. They start by taking the current production watches offline and retool all the equipment to the unique specs of the design. Then after they get all the tiny gears and springs and cases produced they retool everything again. Next they round off and polish and engrave (mostly by hand at this point) and then hand assemble everything several times, each time fine tuning even more. Now keep in mind, all of this is for about 20 watches, with unique parts made just for that series. That's 20 little tiny gear and spring sets, dials, plates, bridges, cases and hands that have taken up months of valuable labour, resources, and equipment. So several million dollars later, you've got your 20 little precious watches, and if you sell all of them you recoup your cost. But hey, you did it all inhouse just because you could. Think of how much money your car would cost if they made everything just for yours (and for 19 other lucky sods) and then stopped. At this point it all started making sense to me. It's not that the canon pinion is hand made, it's that it took a $200k machine offline to make 20 of them. Talk about opportunity costs. I've run this by some people in the industry and have found, to my amazement, that it's not far off the truth. So, needless to say, I gained a new respect for the new limited double tourbillon, equation of time, perp calandar, minute repeating chrono with moon phase, that xxxxx's 500 year old firm on the shores of lake Geneva has just produced. Thanks for the schooling and I mean that. This is the best explanation of the price but not justification of the price. Ican see how they do it just because they can. Now regarding the the bragging rights, hell you better believe it a "cartoony" Rolex is the what you want if you wanna broadcast wealth. Otherwise what's the point? If being obvious is "played out", then being "in the know" & "stealthy" is really the new way of being pompous and pretentious but in a stealthy way. There's even unrefined diamonds being put into jewelry for those "in the know" handy-tards. Are you buying a Bentley GT or Lamborghini because of their performance and exclusivity? They use Audi(VW) of the shelf parts to make both brands profitable(for the first time in decades) but at least you get a "Bling" factor for your 160-200 grand. My main complaint w/PP is the lack of appearance in the product, IMO. For the money, one should get more bling for the buck and screw the mechanism that lies within.
|
|
|
Post by shimside11 on Nov 25, 2007 14:09:09 GMT -5
The bragging rights that I was referring to was that of the company that makes them. It puts them on the level of the elite companies that can afford to focus on the art of one special piece. If you can produce on that level, you are in very exclusive company indeed.
If we're talking about impressing other junior execs at a party or business meeting, or wowing frat buddies with bling, that can be accomplished with a fraction of the price of a collector's grade watch. That frees one up to spend the remainder on pimp cups and fur hats...and a house.
You're not going to get that kind of milage from something like a VC Les Cabinotiers Skeletonized Minute Repeater. That is not what they're made for. A watch like that attracts serious afficionados with real money, and a passion for craftsmanship (old guys, in other words). These watches are works of art on the scale of museum pieces.
If you want to impress on a larger scale get a Rolex. If you're confident in your lifestyle and you're beyond pimping your earning ability to get chicks, then start looking at brands like Patek Philippe, Vacheron Constantin, etc.
On this scale, the price really does not need to be justified. It is what it is. The market that will gravitate to the product will buy it because they want it.
|
|
|
Post by eddie on Nov 25, 2007 15:09:05 GMT -5
The bragging rights that I was referring to was that of the company that makes them. It puts them on the level of the elite companies that can afford to focus on the art of one special piece. If you can produce on that level, you are in very exclusive company indeed. If we're talking about impressing other junior execs at a party or business meeting, or wowing frat buddies with bling, that can be accomplished with a fraction of the price of a collector's grade watch. That frees one up to spend the remainder on pimp cups and fur hats...and a house. You're not going to get that kind of milage from something like a VC Les Cabinotiers Skeletonized Minute Repeater. That is not what they're made for. A watch like that attracts serious afficionados with real money, and a passion for craftsmanship (old guys, in other words). These watches are works of art on the scale of museum pieces. If you want to impress on a larger scale get a Rolex. If you're confident in your lifestyle and you're beyond pimping your earning ability to get chicks, then start looking at brands like Patek Philippe, Vacheron Constantin, etc. On this scale, the price really does not need to be justified. It is what it is. The market that will gravitate to the product will buy it because they want it. Agree for the most part Shimy... ;D Strongly disagree with you however that "a passion for craftsmanship" and an appreciation for complications comes with age and money actually.. I think you are dead wrong . Had my first"serious" piece , a Heuer Autavia GMT ref 11630 back on 1974 with the fabled 17 jewel Valjoux cal.14 automatic chrono(I was just turning 20) saved for 2 years and some help from my mother ... Funny you say that today because my daughter (who is 16 ) was commenting with me a week ago or so about the new Jules Audemars Tourbillon Caliber 2906 (ladies) and that she was so happy to see real complications finally making it into the ladies lines of the most important manufactures .. I think real appreciation for the fine things in life comes with education mostly, money obviously help facilitate anything ;D..
|
|
|
Post by watchrob on Nov 25, 2007 15:48:04 GMT -5
This is not the most exciting expanation, but it says more that most here.
|
|
|
Post by shimside11 on Nov 25, 2007 16:14:16 GMT -5
I agree that taste and refinement doesn't automatically come with age (or money). But it helps to have the time to grow into your money. I've observed several fortunes made over the years and found it interesting that after some time, the bling factor subsides somewhat and the focus tends to narrow and refine, according to ones real interests (that is if you can keep your money and grow it - I've also seen several fortunes lost).
You can be young and modest of means, and have sophisticated inclinations, and you can be old and rich and completely clueless as to the finer things. All I'm saying is that the kind of solid wealth that has staying power is rarely in the hands of very young men, and it takes that kind of money to buy a watch like that.
By no means does money and age equate to finer tastes, but if someone has a proclivity toward haute horology, time will help to refine it and the time it takes to create the means will eventually allow for the acquisition of it.
|
|
|
Post by diver88 on Nov 25, 2007 16:37:15 GMT -5
" cartoon Texan watch" ............ ............. diver88
|
|
|
Post by shimside11 on Nov 25, 2007 17:04:35 GMT -5
cartoon Texan watch:
|
|
|
Post by timefinder on Nov 25, 2007 18:01:54 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by eddie on Nov 25, 2007 18:28:28 GMT -5
I agree that taste and refinement doesn't automatically come with age (or money). But it helps to have the time to grow into your money. I've observed several fortunes made over the years and found it interesting that after some time, the bling factor subsides somewhat and the focus tends to narrow and refine, according to ones real interests (that is if you can keep your money and grow it - I've also seen several fortunes lost). You can be young and modest of means, and have sophisticated inclinations, and you can be old and rich and completely clueless as to the finer things. All I'm saying is that the kind of solid wealth that has staying power is rarely in the hands of very young men, and it takes that kind of money to buy a watch like that. By no means does money and age equate to finer tastes, but if someone has a proclivity toward haute horology, time will help to refine it and the time it takes to create the means will eventually allow for the acquisition of it. I do agree.....we'll see so much of the "I have so much money , what I do with it now?" these days but , I guess the pattern is older as the human race is ..sad but, the case... I can tell you that I have the pleasure to met some very young folks with an extensive knowledge as well as a fine taste for fine watches, some (like I did in my days) rather wait and save for a more interesting piece that settle for a lesser watch...like you said haute horology or any thing "haute'for that matter needs to be an educational process...we need more of that.
|
|
|
Post by boscoe on Nov 26, 2007 0:08:24 GMT -5
diver88: back when i was a kid, they'd always have a loud-mouth Texas oilman in a big hat, boots, belt buckle driving a pimped out Caddy convertible with steer horns on the grill. All flash and a wad of cash. That is a cartoon Texan. Having lived in Texas for many years, I never bumped into anyone like that. Just like I never bumped into a cartoon New Yorker during my years in New York.
|
|
|
Post by diver88 on Nov 26, 2007 0:21:08 GMT -5
hey BosKoE, I think that dude lives down the street from me but he wears a gold nugget watch, not a nice one like in the pikcher yee haw!! diver88 ;D ;D
|
|