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Post by JBHII on Sept 14, 2007 4:49:10 GMT -5
I'm saddened and disappointed because here on our ONLY FORUM sponsored by a company I cant get a answer to what should be a simple question. I WAS interested in Ball but I cannot and will not spend the money they command without knowing which grade of ETA movements are used. I no longer want to spend over $1000.00 for a watch which has a $70.00 or less movement inside. Just wouldn't feel any pride in owning such a watch. I have enough of those already and want to move up to something that gives me pride in ownership. I realize that this may be just me-----but with over 200 watches and 45+ years of collecting/repairing its the point I'm at now. But I really love them tubes in a day/date 2836/2 movement.- Gary - I understand your frustration, but let's cut Jeremy some slack. Whatever Jeremy's job/role is with Ball, it isn't to provide instant response to questions on the Ball Watch Forum. I for one am estatic that Jeremy has made himself available, and is active in our community. His participation and service here is greatly appreciated and I hope it's as fun and exciting for him as it is for all of us! Let's try to show a little patience. Clearly Jeremy is working to get the answer.
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Post by Jeremy from Ball on Sept 14, 2007 5:49:07 GMT -5
I'm interested in Ball and very curious with regard to the following. Maybe Jeremy as a representative of Ball can give a correct response. With ETA having five quality grades for each of their movements(and the 2824 or 2836 in particular) which QUALITY grade is Ball using in their non-COSC models. Also while most would PRESUME that a COSC model would use the top chronometer grade of the ETA movement that doesnt have to be the case. So additionaly I would ask Jeremy to advise as to what grade of movement Ball uses in their COSC certified watches? Thanks All Ball Chronometers start with Top COSC movements. Ball calibres start with Top grade movements. Other ETA-based nonchronometers start with Elabore movements. Modifications & engravings vary depending on the model.
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Post by bullosa on Sept 14, 2007 6:51:36 GMT -5
Thx Jeremy, for the response. I am happy with my humble 2824-2 Fireman. The first week I wore it, I was embarrased to let people know that it was doing give and take +2 seconds a day. Now it is doing between +6-8 seconds a day.
As feedback, I think if Ball can maintain a high standard for mechanical precision time by stringent assembly, testing and regulating the watches, I would be happy with it.
Now I will release you to go back to help out at the production lines...LOL...just kidding! ;D
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Post by ltgary on Sept 14, 2007 12:27:22 GMT -5
Jeremy: Thanks for the info. While I am no longer personally interested in buying any watch at over 1000.00 that has only a standard or Elabore movement in it I realize that is very very common in the industry in watches retailing for many thousands of dollars. I dont really think the two lower grades of the ETA movements are bad-they are certainly not. Mine, and I have plenty, all keep great time(after being regulated). Its just that I have evolved and now only want a Top or Chronometer grade of movement in any future expensive watches that I buy(read $1000.00 or more). I pushed this issue only because I was really really interested in your Engineer Classic(day-date 2836/2 movement) but with no local Ball Dealers I would to have mail ordered it and I would have been very unhappy when I opened it up to find a Elabore movement inside. Had there been a local dealer I possibly could have learned what I needed to know on-site but lacking such I turned to you as the only ACCURATE source of information that I could find. While you have lost a sale to me on this particular model I will continue to say only good things about Ball because I feel you make a tremendous unique product which I am sure has a great future. Keep growing and expanding so someday we all have access to local dealers. To bad that here in the Cleveland Ohio area where it all started there isnt a dealer that I know of. The Webb C. Ball building(used to go there as a kid when they were open) is still vacant and they have moved the 100+ year old outside tower clock to some other city. So sad
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Post by Jeremy from Ball on Sept 14, 2007 12:43:09 GMT -5
If you mean the clock that stood outside the Ball store & building for many years, we're working to have it restored and relocated. Fredericktown, Webb C. Ball's birthplace, has been discussed as one of the options.
We'll keep you updated on the progress.
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Post by timefinder on Sept 14, 2007 13:49:48 GMT -5
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Post by timefinder on Sept 14, 2007 14:54:50 GMT -5
I'm interested in Ball and very curious with regard to the following. Maybe Jeremy as a representative of Ball can give a correct response. With ETA having five quality grades for each of their movements(and the 2824 or 2836 in particular) which QUALITY grade is Ball using in their non-COSC models. Also while most would PRESUME that a COSC model would use the top chronometer grade of the ETA movement that doesnt have to be the case. So additionaly I would ask Jeremy to advise as to what grade of movement Ball uses in their COSC certified watches? Thanks All Ball Chronometers start with Top COSC movements. Ball calibres start with Top grade movements. Other ETA-based nonchronometers start with Elabore movements. Modifications & engravings vary depending on the model. Jeremy: Does this mean the Trainmaster Cleveland Express uses to the Top COSC movement? Thanks again.
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Post by ltgary on Sept 14, 2007 15:32:44 GMT -5
The Cleveland Plain Dealer recently ran a story about the clock and how sad it was to see it go after all these years. While the story mentioned the city it was being moved to they didnt say anything about the connection to the current Ball Watch Company or the reason the city was picked. Very glad to hear that it is still in the family. While I am sure there are similar clocks around the country in other cities Balls stood proudly on Euclid Avenue for many years and Euclid Avenue is now being revamped, and restored to its old glory. Now if we could only get people to come downtown again. Maybe your company should also put a monument or memorial in Kipton marking the spot of the great wreck that started Mr. Ball on his quest for exact time for the whole railroad. I think Kipton still has at least 200 residents. I know I like to fish in the lake at the Wildlife Area. Thanks again Jeremy for the info
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Post by timefinder on Sept 14, 2007 16:56:37 GMT -5
Does anyone have a picture of the clock, or is it on the Ball website? I would like to see it after reading all the information.
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Post by timefinder on Sept 14, 2007 19:40:16 GMT -5
I have to say I REALLY like the Trainmaster Cleveland Express; however, I am concerned about the price ratio in relation to the cost of the movement. This is NOT only a concern with Ball; but, with other manufacturers as well. (Thanks to LtGary who provided me more information.)
I understand about overhead, R&D, Marketing, transportation, AD profit, etc., contribute to the overall cost; but, the physical aspect of an ETA watch, even with COSC, and related parts, is only a few hundered dollars. Thereafter, watch makers boost the price into the thousands, which, like jewelry, is a signifigant markup, and well over 300%. More like 1000%.
With cost factors like this, it is VERY hard to justify spending that much money on a watch. Why not just order the parts and build one myself for $300?
Next, I want to thank Jeremy for all his assistance on this board, especially answering some tough questions on this board. It is refreshing to see someone from the company actually take time and post to an internet BB. To me, that is great customer service, something one can not put a price on; but, one where companies lose business when exceptional service is not provided.
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Post by bullosa on Sept 16, 2007 19:35:40 GMT -5
I have to say I REALLY like the Trainmaster Cleveland Express; however, I am concerned about the price ratio in relation to the cost of the movement. This is NOT only a concern with Ball; but, with other manufacturers as well. (Thanks to LtGary who provided me more information.) I understand about overhead, R&D, Marketing, transportation, AD profit, etc., contribute to the overall cost; but, the physical aspect of an ETA watch, even with COSC, and related parts, is only a few hundered dollars. Thereafter, watch makers boost the price into the thousands, which, like jewelry, is a signifigant markup, and well over 300%. More like 1000%. With cost factors like this, it is VERY hard to justify spending that much money on a watch. Why not just order the parts and build one myself for $300? Next, I want to thank Jeremy for all his assistance on this board, especially answering some tough questions on this board. It is refreshing to see someone from the company actually take time and post to an internet BB. To me, that is great customer service, something one can not put a price on; but, one where companies lose business when exceptional service is not provided. I am of the opinion that some Ball Watches still pack great value considering what is available in the market for Swiss Made watches. I like Bell & Ross watches but I do not see myself paying those prices for their ETA based watches at this time.
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Post by exxondus on Sept 17, 2007 10:20:18 GMT -5
jeremy, u mean theres more models coming out besides those 4 already stated?
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Post by Jeremy from Ball on Sept 17, 2007 21:19:42 GMT -5
jeremy, u mean theres more models coming out besides those 4 already stated? Of course! We still have the majority of our new watches to come! So far we have launched the Trainmaster Cleveland Express Chronometer, Engineer Hydrocarbon Midsize, EH TMT Titanium, Engineer Master II Diver Chronometer and EM II Diver TMT. Still to come are: Fireman Night Train, TM Cannonball, TM Racer, EM II Diver Chronograph, TM Doctor's Chronograph, and TM Cleveland Express Dual Time. Regards, Jeremy
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Post by boscoe on Sept 17, 2007 21:28:38 GMT -5
Jeremy you are the bomb! Thanks, you made many of us here happy. Appreciate the effort.
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Post by exxondus on Sept 17, 2007 22:05:11 GMT -5
Of course! We still have the majority of our new watches to come! So far we have launched the Trainmaster Cleveland Express Chronometer, Engineer Hydrocarbon Midsize, EH TMT Titanium, Engineer Master II Diver Chronometer and EM II Diver TMT. Still to come are: Fireman Night Train, TM Cannonball, TM Racer, EM II Diver Chronograph, TM Doctor's Chronograph, and TM Cleveland Express Dual Time. Regards, Jeremy The TM Racer sounds interessting, is it possible to know how many tubes it has, if its Limited ed, etc? I am planning to get Night Train cos of the lume, but if the racer has great lume too and on top of that a chronograph, i will def get that too (if i can afford when its released ) Any Limited ed watches coming out? i am a sucker for LE watches, thats why I currently own a ME II Chronometer LE (only complain I have is the lume and also the dial which is quite reflective)
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